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Zaphod

Contributor

Registered: 2022-10-23

Posts: 4

PM3 RDV4 not reading some magic MFC cards, while PM3 Easy reads o.k.

Hi,

I started my Proxmark journey by getting myself a PM3 Easy variant. Then I decided to go level up and also purchased (a much more expensive) Proxmark 3 RDV 4.0.1 version (from LAB401).

However I just found out:

Summary:
- PM3 RDV4.0.1: has problems with reading some MIFARE Classic magic cards (that I got from Aliexpress). (but it does work o.k. with a magic card that came with PM3 RDV4.0.1)
- PM3 Easy does not have problems with reading any magic card.

I just did a git pull to the latest version (Iceman/master/v4.15864-265-gec8a603ac 2023-01-22 21:48:52) and make clean and rebuild and reflashed both RDV4 and PM3 Easy: to make sure the code base is the same: Same problems. (The difference is in the target: RDV4 vs PM3GENERIC though. I don't know what everything exactly is affected with target selection but I would imagine such core functionality should not be any different between these compile targets?)

Details:
**Proxmark Easy: hf search and check for keys: o.k.:

[usb] pm3 --> hf search                       
?  Searching for ISO14443-A tag...         
[+]  UID: D5 05 E3 C2
[+] ATQA: 00 04
[+]  SAK: 08 [2]
[+] Possible types:
[+]    MIFARE Classic 1K
[=] proprietary non iso14443-4 card found, RATS not supported
[+] Magic capabilities : Gen 1a
[+] Prng detection: weak
[#] Auth error
[?] Hint: try `hf mf` commands

[+] Valid ISO 14443-A tag found

[usb] pm3 --> hf mf chk --1k --dump
[=] Start check for keys...
[=] .................................
[=] time in checkkeys 2 seconds

[=] testing to read key B...

[+] found keys:

[+] -----+-----+--------------+---+--------------+----
[+]  Sec | Blk | key A        |res| key B        |res
[+] -----+-----+--------------+---+--------------+----
[+]  000 | 003 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  001 | 007 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  002 | 011 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  003 | 015 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  004 | 019 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  005 | 023 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  006 | 027 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  007 | 031 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  008 | 035 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  009 | 039 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  010 | 043 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  011 | 047 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  012 | 051 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  013 | 055 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  014 | 059 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+]  015 | 063 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1 | FFFFFFFFFFFF | 1
[+] -----+-----+--------------+---+--------------+----
[+] ( 0:Failed / 1:Success )

[+] Generating binary key file
[+] Found keys have been dumped to hf-mf-D505E3C2-key-1.bin
[=] FYI! --> 0xFFFFFFFFFFFF <-- has been inserted for unknown keys where res is 0

[usb] pm3 -->

----------------------------
*** Proxmark RDV 4.0.1: the same magic chineese card: NOT even detected by PM3 RDV4: hf search fails. (and check for keys fails as well)

[usb] pm3 --> hf search
?  Searching for ISO14443-A tag...[#] Card didn't answer to CL1 select all
[!] ⚠️  No known/supported 13.56 MHz tags found
[usb] pm3 -->

[usb] pm3 --> hf mf chk --1k --dump
[usb] pm3 --> hf mf chk --1k --dump
[=] Start check for keys...
[=] ..[#] Card didn't answer to CL1 select all
[#] Card didn't answer to CL1 select all
[#] Card didn't answer to CL1 select all
[#] Card didn't answer to CL1 select all
[#] Card didn't answer to select
[#] Card didn't answer to select
[#] Card didn't answer to select
[#] Card didn't answer to select
... The "Card didn't answer to select' repeats indefinetely

I've updated SW on both PM3 RDV4 and PM3 Easy to to the same version: v4.15864-265-gec8a603a: 2023-01-22 21:48:52: The problem remains the same.

Note however, If instead of using the magic card from Aliexpress I try the magic card that came with my proxmark RDV4: it works

[usb] pm3 --> hf search
?  Searching for ISO14443-A tag...         
[+]  UID: 2F 20 F8 3C
[+] ATQA: 00 04
[+]  SAK: 08 [2]
[+] Possible types:
[+]    MIFARE Classic 1K
[=] proprietary non iso14443-4 card found, RATS not supported
[+] Magic capabilities : Gen 1a
[+] Prng detection: weak
[#] Auth error
[?] Hint: try `hf mf` commands

So RDV4 only has problems with some magic cards.

---
So the issue is either in HW (a HW issue on my PM3 RDV4 maybe -- I really hope not) or in the SW (however what could be the difference between pm3 compiled for RDV4 versus PM3GENERIC, I would not expect the difference be in such aspects) ?

The issue does not affect all magic cards, only some. But why would some not work on the newest and latest RDV4 (and why would PM3 Easy on the other hand not have any problems wiht any MFC magic card)?

Thank you in advance!

Last edited by Zaphod (2023-01-22 22:45:18)

Zaphod

Contributor

Registered: 2022-10-23

Posts: 4

Re: PM3 RDV4 not reading some magic MFC cards, while PM3 Easy reads o.k.

Hmm: new findings:

The card that did not work with RDV4: I've now rotated it 90 degrees and now it is detected by RDV4: So:
- card rectangle alligned with PM3 RDV4 rectangle: card NOT detected at all.
- card rotated 90 degrees: detected and read. hf search works.

Testing the same card with PM3 Easy: Can read the card with any orientation.

Emm, so where could be the issue? A specific magic card bad antenna design? (But why does it then work with PM3 Easy with any orientation).

iceman

Administrator

Registered: 2013-04-25

Posts: 9,537

Website

Re: PM3 RDV4 not reading some magic MFC cards, while PM3 Easy reads o.k.

usually with 14a cards you would need some distance between the card and antenna.

Try 1-2cm,

Zaphod

Contributor

Registered: 2022-10-23

Posts: 4

Re: PM3 RDV4 not reading some magic MFC cards, while PM3 Easy reads o.k.

Oh, that solved the issue! Thank you!  I don't know why I didn't think about experimenting with distance.

I'm still curious: What is the explanation for this?  Could the signal be too strong in some cases to cause some issues or is it some other EM field related explanation?

Last edited by Zaphod (2023-01-24 20:55:01)

iceman

Administrator

Registered: 2013-04-25

Posts: 9,537

Website

Re: PM3 RDV4 not reading some magic MFC cards, while PM3 Easy reads o.k.

its like shouting in a mic and the speakers flattens out.