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#51 2009-08-04 05:49:05

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Before you get  annoyed with me d18c7db............... I really really really appreciate all you have done.......... I have read the post and not much is said. I think you have to be a real genius with an IQ of 150.... plus study 3 unit maths and chemistry and physics before anyone like me understands.

May the force be with you!!! or are you a fan of star-trek?

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-08-05 12:47:40)


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#52 2009-08-05 00:18:15

XEROEFFECT
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From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

d18c7db, any help on this one?...


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#53 2009-08-05 01:10:11

d18c7db
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Registered: 2008-08-19
Posts: 292

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

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#54 2009-08-05 01:13:21

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Oh thanks.......d18c7db..... Don't know how i missed this one....... I'll read it now. cool


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#55 2009-08-05 01:23:50

XEROEFFECT
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From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

WoW d18c7db....... your on fire!!!! manonfire.gif

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-08-05 01:52:04)


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#56 2009-08-28 10:10:37

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

d18c7db,
I finally got some time today to finish where we left off. I followed all instructions on the compile page, and now I can't get passed 5makeall.bat. This is a screen shot of what happens:

makeall.png

Would you please be kind enough to tell me why i'm getting this error. Ive downloaded c++ 2008 expess edition from microsoft thinking maybe i'm missing files but that doesn't solve the problem.

Your lost friend,
Xero.


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#57 2009-08-28 12:12:55

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Guys, I'm so frustrated and brain-dead right now. I've been going at this all day with no luck at all. Could I really be that stupid? My personal opinion -not that it really matters- is that it was so much easier to flash pm3 the original way D1 had described in an earlier post. Why did it get so complicated with the proxspace folder?? I'm so pissed off I can't do this right now I really need sleep.  All I want is to do fskdemod and have the grid function I don't know what the hell to do now!

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-08-28 14:12:36)


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#58 2009-08-29 00:49:19

d18c7db
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Registered: 2008-08-19
Posts: 292

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Look at the paths inside 0setpath.bat file then check your directory structure and make sure it in fact matches those.

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#59 2009-08-29 04:04:02

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Thanks d18c7db. I'm gonna double check now. How do I get the make file to execute for each directory? Is there something I havn't intalled yet cause this seems to be the prob. Seems like when command wakes this make file it shits itself cause it dosn't know how to deal with it. Any suggestions?

Thanks D1.


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#60 2009-08-29 05:10:10

duran97
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Registered: 2009-06-16
Posts: 63

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

No, it doesn't know where to find the make file at present.  The batch file is looking for it in a specific place, but it's either located in a different place, not not on yet on your computer.  Most probably the first.

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#61 2009-08-29 10:19:08

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Thanks Duran but I still seem to be going round in circles. I am indeed sure that the BAT files are pointing in the right direction. Once they find the makefile under each directory my command prompt looks at them and dosn't wanna know them. I have downloaded Nmake15 from microsoft thinking this could be it- but it's not. There is something I'm missing. By the way guys, I'm using the command prompt built into windows- I hope thats right cause i'm gonna look like a fool. When I come to think of it, how is windows supposed to know what the hell a makefile is?? looking at the pic below it's obvious that windows has no clue about this file.

makefile.png

Any other suggestions?


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#62 2009-08-29 15:19:49

rule
Administrator
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 416

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Hey,

Did you extract the proxmark compile environment (proxspace) for windows?
You can find it in the files section.

nmake and all the tools should be in there. Just as the example (old version) sourcecode files.

cheers,

  Roel

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#63 2009-08-31 01:39:02

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Good morning guys,
Roel, the old version of proxspace seems to work but dosn't build the fpgaimage.s19 and osimage.s19. Appart from that the make was succesful.

My next question relates to the compile environment Henryk cleaned up. This seems to work flawlessly with the 20090826_prox folder that comes included- God bless your cotton socks Henry smile. When I follow Compiling instructions D1 setup and create the proxmark folder using Subcommander and replace that folder with the 20090826_prox folder I don't get fpgaimage.s19 and osimage.s19 in the armsrc/obj. Instead I get these files
armsrcobj.jpg

Also, intead of getting a bootrom-merged.s19 file in bootrom/obj I only get a bootrom.s19 as in pic below
bootromobj.jpg

Could someone please explain why I'm not getting expected results when trying to follow the Compile instructions. What Im guessing is that the make file that is compiled using subcommander has not been uptated to Henry's specs. Is this just a matter of swapping Henry's makefiles with the makefiles that are located in the proxmark folder according to Subcommander?

I would really appreciate any advise. I need to somehow get through this mess. Please help me.


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#64 2009-08-31 01:57:37

henryk
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Registered: 2009-07-27
Posts: 99

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

XEROEFFECT: Your problem is that you have a new checkout (make based) with an old Windows compile environment (nmake based). I have prepared a new version of the Windows compile environment, but couldn't upload it directly to the files section due to size limitations, so you'll find a link to 2009.08.26.ProxSpace.zip in http://www.proxmark.org/forum/post/1728/#p1728

If anybody knows how to do something similar to `which make` (find out if some command is in the PATH, and maybe even where) in Windows we could modify the batch files to detect and properly report this case ...

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#65 2009-08-31 08:50:04

XEROEFFECT
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From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Wow Henry, you really work miracles! I really can't thank you enough. When I get a chance tonight im gonna try it again and let you guys know how I went. I think I'm closing in on this one.


@ adam@algroup.co.uk

I wanna buy the OmniKey Cardman 5325 and OmniKeyCardman 5321 from you. Do you still have these in stock? Thanks.


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#66 2009-08-31 11:10:43

duran97
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Registered: 2009-06-16
Posts: 63

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Henryk may not appreciate "Henry" (?)- it's one word (not a typical English name) not a combination of two words.    :-)

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#67 2009-08-31 11:18:12

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Oh shit Duran97, your right. My appologies Henryk I thought it was combination of 2 names, i.e Henry K______. 4give me.


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#68 2009-08-31 12:24:31

adam@algroup.co.uk
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From: UK
Registered: 2009-05-01
Posts: 203
Website

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

XEROEFFECT wrote:

@ adam@algroup.co.uk

I wanna buy the OmniKey Cardman 5325 and OmniKeyCardman 5321 from you. Do you still have these in stock? Thanks.

Yep, just use the online basket at rfidiot.org

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#69 2009-08-31 12:33:38

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

@ adam
Ok cool. I just finished watching your video on You Tube-awsome stuff. Which device did you use to program the Q5 cards cause thats probably going to help me in my quest. Also, do you sell any read/write Q5 tags?

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-08-31 12:40:16)


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#70 2009-08-31 19:30:41

adam@algroup.co.uk
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From: UK
Registered: 2009-05-01
Posts: 203
Website

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

I used the ACG LF writer to program the cards, and packs of 5 blank Q5 clamshells are also available on the site.

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#71 2009-09-01 08:44:23

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Ok, can't wait to start experimenting although this python thing makes me nervous. Wish me luck.


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#72 2009-09-01 11:45:53

adam@algroup.co.uk
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From: UK
Registered: 2009-05-01
Posts: 203
Website

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Python rocks. Do the online tutorial and you'll be programming before you know it...

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/

Oh, and good luck! tongue

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#73 2009-09-01 13:08:50

XEROEFFECT
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From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

@  adam@algroup.co.uk
Oh, and just incase you rock up to my front door with a TV crew, trying to prove you can get in- cause you've got my tags UID (Keri.pm3) your wrong. I've moved places- Ive got different tag. smile I can imagine your name all over news reports just like Jonathan Westhues.

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-09-01 13:14:54)


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#74 2009-09-10 17:11:38

XEROEFFECT
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From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

@ adam@algroup.co.uk

Hey Adam,
Need to ask you. Do any of your python scripts support FSK modulation for the Q5? I mean, If I was to program the bits described in POST 5 of another thread I hijacked, would I be able to program the Q5 card to use FSK modulation using your scripts?


Thanks Adam. I'm off to bed now.
Lights Out!

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-09-10 17:12:35)


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#75 2009-09-30 08:11:25

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Hi All,
Can somebody please clarify what Wiegand 26 really is. correct me if i'm wrong- It's not a type of communication modulation between card and reader its the communication modulation that occurs between reader and server which is mainly used in access control where cabling needs to be streched long distances. right? Whats your opinion?

Thanks guys.

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-09-30 08:13:18)


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#76 2009-09-30 08:45:20

henryk
Contributor
Registered: 2009-07-27
Posts: 99

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Yes, the Wiegand effect is a physical effect that occurs in a specially produced kind of wire which has been used in the ancient past (I mean, like the 1980s) to build access control systems. The properties of the wires in the keycards made building readers dead easy, even back then, since all you need is coil and a magnetic field in front of which you swipe the card. Embedded in the card are small strands of Wiegand wire at strategic positions, and if there is Wiegand wire present an electrical pulse will be generated in the coil, otherwise no pulse will be generated.

In order to store the card number the old systems used two rows of 26 columns. In each column there would be a short Wiegand wire either in the first or in the second row, encoding a 0 or a 1. Something like that:

/---------------------------------------------\
|     Ultra cool access control card          |
|                                             |
|       | |||   ||| | | ||| ||  ||            |
|        |   |||   | | |   |  ||              |
|                                             |
\---------------------------------------------/

(Obviously the strands of wire would only be visible with through-light.)

This works basically like a printed barcode, only with a more complicated 'print' and a less complicated reader. Also, since the barcode is invisible and you can print anything you want on the card, it's obviously much cooler, so everyone wanted this system.

If you read that with two reader coils you get two data tracks: One for the Zeroes and one for the Ones. You'll then use a common ground and end up with what is called the Wiegand interface: three wires (GND, Zero, One) and each card number is transmitted as 26 pulses, each pulse on either the Zero or the One wire.

When new and better systems appeared on the market, and everybody already had their Wiegand systems, the new systems were made to be compatible to this de-facto interface standard. For a lot of systems (at least in the U.S., I think I've never heard of Wiegand before here in Germany) this means that, no matter how complicated and secure the reader is (two-factor biometric with contact-based smartcard and pin entry perhaps?), for transmission to the central system the input gets converted into a 26-bit card number and transmitted as 26 pulses on two wires. Because, in order to be compatible, you obviously not only need to use the interface, but also somehow need to map all access control decisions onto virtual 26-bit card numbers.

I once saw a video of a good explanatory talk by Zac Franken, I think this is it.

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#77 2009-09-30 14:35:53

XEROEFFECT
Contributor
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2009-07-20
Posts: 132

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Very very interesting video you pointed out Henryk. Thanks for your response. All this tme I thought Wiegand was a type of modulation which the prox-card used to communicate with the reader. It's a shame Zac hasn't released the Gecko device he built-I so want one. I'm trying to program a Q5 card with the bits I read off my Keri tag which uses FSK. What is my chance of sucess Henryk. Have you ever worked with Q5 cards?

Couple more questions Henryk... What is it your studying at UNI and where will it lead you in the future?
Thanks Henryk.

Last edited by XEROEFFECT (2009-09-30 14:40:09)


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#78 2010-12-02 12:45:50

fixer
Member
Registered: 2010-11-20
Posts: 6

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

terrence66 wrote:

Does any one have code for reading Wiegand 26-bit ????

What do you mean?

Wiegand is a physical interface not RFID. If you want to use the wiegand output from a reader that you own, you have to buy or build a H/W converter.

Even with a converter, you will only get a number out of the device that represents the card ID.

--
Fixer

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#79 2013-06-10 18:51:35

JM@BIDT
Member
Registered: 2013-05-08
Posts: 3

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

I know this is from like a really really long time ago, but has anyone gotten anywhere with the Keri cards?

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#80 2013-06-14 19:57:51

wdeblase
Member
Registered: 2013-06-14
Posts: 2

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

Same question, any one able to copy a keri fob?

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#81 2013-09-16 16:37:28

urkis
Contributor
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 30

Re: Wiegand 26 bit

I have a swipe card with this concealed barcode as henryk describes, and it must be a wiegand card. Can I decode the bars visually, clone it to a T55x7 with some modulation and swipe the T55x7-card in the reader and make it work, or did I got it wrong?

Last edited by urkis (2013-09-16 16:51:34)

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